[aida] Why Aida/Scribo failed to me

[smalltalk at adinet.com.uy]

German,

I do not know what happen with your project and i never used Scribo, 
but i?m using AIDA for some projects.
I'm using AIDA 5 for Dolphin (eventually i will port the last version 
to Dolphin NG), but i was capable to do what i want it.

Why do you tell us your problems and may be some one can help you ?
Since I use Dolphin and the AIDA version is pretty stable i can not 
argue in Squeak world.

I think if have enough time you can change the AIDA code by your own 
and then send the change to this list.

I?m not an AIDA expert but in a couple of hours i was able to change 
the naming convention of AIDA (viewXXXX methods for tabs) and use one 
of my own.
I mean some of my classes use Aida in the normal way, in another class 
the naming convention to draw a web page have been changed, in only a 
couple of hours. 
So to ME the flexibility has no price...

>on these days, I means, the products are not ready to be used on
>production if the user/developer
>isn't an Aida/Scribo core developer.

Well, i?m not a Aida core developer but i change a lot of internal 
staff of AIDA, so i disagree with you here.
May be it take time but is not difficult to change Aida.

To a production environment is a RULE to use the last stable version 
although may be not all features are present.

>nothing. Why not? Because doesn't exist
>a way to introduce new developers on your products.

I have to desagree here too. I want to use it you can do it, you have 
ALL the source code.
This is the way i did.

Regards,
Bruno


>----Mensaje original----
>De: garduino at gmail.com
>Fecha: 16/03/2009 11:56 
>Para: "AIDA/Web general discussion list"<aida at aidaweb.si>
>Asunto: [aida] Why Aida/Scribo failed to me
>
>First of all let me say that the following opinions aren't
>destructives, only are my feelings and opinions
>after several months trying to use Aida/Scribo on production 
customers.
>
>And I must admit, I failed.
>
>Why failed? I will try not to go at the position were the
>responsability is only of others,
>surely a big part is of mine, but I think that some points on this
>incipient community are
>not going by the way of get a successful open source project.
>
>The developers of a project that wants to release it as real open
>source, that means providing
>a way to others programmers understand the design and big picture to
>start helping on the project
>as fast as possible, need to take care not only of program and code
>and design. They NEED to take
>care of provide the path to other pogrammers get inserted in the
>internals of the project.
>
>And on Aida/Scribo I noted that despite of the calls on the lists to
>use/try it, currently only
>two persons are in position of make changes, solve bugs, etc.
>
>I note a discrepancy between the calls to use the products and what
>the products are really doing
>on these days, I means, the products are not ready to be used on
>production if the user/developer
>isn't an Aida/Scribo core developer.
>
>That was my experience, I tried, spent lot and lot of time, only to
>make 1 step ahead and 2 backward.
>
>When I got enthusiasted by the mails calling to use Aida and friends 
I
>tried to use, learn, examine code,
>adapt my needs to the features that were, after so weren't anymore 
and
>now seems to be again (as "sites"
>feature), but soon I get stucked in the middle of different versions,
>not clear who works with who, not
>clear what are the timeframes to have some coherent versions working,
>with errors on the versions I'm using
>(I know are Beta but still) and without the capability of arrange
>nothing. Why not? Because doesn't exist
>a way to introduce new developers on your products.
>
>The proof is that only 2 guys are the core developers, and by no 
means
>an open source project can grow
>at this way.
>
>I understand that the core developers need to eat/pay the bills/etc 
as
>all of us, then more important
>(if they really wants ot make the projects OPEN) is try to spend a 
bit
>of their little time on explaining
>internal things (with documentation or screencast or any other way) 
to
>help other programmers start working.
>
>By example, on Scribo, a sort of explanation about the model and how
>the whole thing was thinked and how
>to extend or modify its behaviour, not how to use it as user.
>
>Other useful things to an open source community are:
>
>* A clear identifications of versions that works together and its
>features and repos.
>
>* A plan to the new releases with features that will come and 
possible dates.
>
>And if the dates will be far, the best things that may be done is say
>the true, the real estimated dates or,
>simply, some sort of "When I can, because my priority isn't the open 
stuff".
>
>That will avoid other people remains awaiting things that never will 
comes.
>
>To end, the way to make a succesful open source project isn't only 1
>or 2 guys working and others only
>watching and awaiting. Several of us want to help, I'm sure, but no
>way, not a path to be part of core developers easily.
>
>Why not a path? May be because the core developers aren't having time
>to think on these things, or because they think
>that must spend their little time on users more than on developers
>(but here I think that users and developers
>are synonyms) or becasue the core developers don't wants others touch
>their code?
>
>Now I must leave Aida/Scribo, now I'm sure that the new releases and
>features will come very very slow and will need time,
>but know this took my months. Isn't nice.
>
>Well, as I've said when started, only trying to transmit my feelings
>and may be this opinions could help this
>community.
>
>Cheers.
>
>--
>Germán S. Arduino
>http://www.arsol.biz
>http://www.arsol.net
>_______________________________________________
>Aida mailing list
>Aida at aidaweb.si
>http://lists.aidaweb.si/mailman/listinfo/aida
>