[aida] [Seaside] Comparison by example

H. Hirzel hannes.hirzel at gmail.com
Thu Jun 23 18:55:47 CEST 2011

P.S. I just realized that the formatting on the etherpad
renders the description much more readable



On 6/23/11, H. Hirzel <hannes.hirzel at gmail.com> wrote:
> Janko,
> Fine, I copy a more detailed proposal in below.
> You may directly edit it under
> http://www.edupad.ch/tB6G15hqCx
> The version below is saved as version 1.
> In the hope I approach your wish of "not too much, not too few, just
> enough".
> However everybody who is interested is invited to directly do the
> changes there and then save a version.
> I propose that you then copy the version to this email so that people
> who do not feel comfortable using the etherpad can contribute with
> traditional mailing list replies.
> Regards
> Hannes
> -------------------------------------------------------
> Copy of
> http://www.edupad.ch/tB6G15hqCx
> Version 1
> -------------------------------------------------------
> Smalltalk web frameworks comparison
> example application
> Aim
> ------
> There are three Smalltalk webframeworks
>     Seaside
>     Aida
>     Ilias
> One way to compare them is to create a table with features
> https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0Atnb1W9vuq9ndGRTUFIzT3VON0lTQ3JxdlZYTUxhOFE&hl=en&authkey=CJva7-8L&pli=1#gid=0
> On the mailing lists people brought up the shortcomings of this
> approach and the suggestion was made to implement the same application
> in all the three frameworks.
> Point of departure
> -------------------------
> Applications in the Ducasse Seaside book
> http://book.seaside.st/book/in-action/todo  ToDo List application
> http://book.seaside.st/book/in-action/serving-files  Serving files (e.g.
> images)
> http://book.seaside.st/book/web-20/rss  Really Simple Syndication
> http://book.seaside.st/book/in-action/sudoku  A Web Sodoku Player
> Application in the HPI Seaside book
> ToDo list application with login; each user has his or her ToDo list
> http://www.hpi.uni-potsdam.de/hirschfeld/seaside/tutorial
> The Gemstone tutorial does not have a sample application. It explains
> how parts are done.
> http://seaside.gemstone.com/tutorial.html
> Aida
> Sample application is an address book
> http://www.aidaweb.si/tutorial.html
> (Note: a screenshot of the main screen on the web page would be nice)
> So for a comparison it seems like a natural extension to build on what
> is available -- the ToDo list application. And the HPI book has the
> most comprehensive one.
> Iliad web frame work
> No application (on the web site); not checked in the code
> ToDo List application
> 1) Do for all frameworks what is described in the HPI book (several
> users; each user has his private todo list)
> 2) Extend it that several users may have a common todo list where
> everybody can add todo items and mark them as done (with a remark
> field for notes and a field who created a todo item and who marked it
> as done)
> 3) Extend it that todo items may be assigned to a user and offer views
> so that people see the todo items assigned to them
> 4) Add a glossary module (e.g. list of abbreviations and expansions);
> people may use special terms in the todo list items; they should
> appear as hyperlinks or have a hover help explanation (the glossary
> term when hovering over the term).
> 5) Add a chat module so that people can meet and  discuss about todo
> items and move assignments and priorities around.
> Resources
> Seaside Books
> Dynamic Web Development with Seaside
> by S. Ducasse, L. Renggli, C. D. Shaffer, R. Zaccone with M. Davies 2009
> http://book.seaside.st/book
> An Introduction to Seaside
> by M. Perscheid, M. Haupt, M. Beck, P. Osburg, J. Eastman, R.
> Hirschfeld, D. Tibbe, S. Berger 2008
> http://www.hpi.uni-potsdam.de/hirschfeld/seaside/tutorial
> Gemstone Tutorial
> http://seaside.gemstone.com/tutorial.html
> Aida Web Documentation
> http://www.aidaweb.si
> Iliad Project Documentation
> http://www.iliadproject.org/
> On 6/23/11, Janko Mivšek <janko.mivsek at eranova.si> wrote:
>> Hannes,
>> What I'd like to ask you is to continue detailing your proposal, so that
>> we will have just exact enough blueprint for this example app. Not too
>> much, not too few, just enough :)
>> Best regards
>> Janko
>> S, Janko Mivšek piše:
>>> Hi guys,
>>> I'm opening a new thread with idea by Johan and Hannes to write an
>>> example app on all three web frameworks. Here is a copy of that thread
>>> and first Hannes proposal:
>>> Johan: For comparing, it would be really good to have the same
>>> application written in the three frameworks by experts and have the
>>> experts compare them. Hey, if I find the time (oeps) I would even love
>>> to help out on that one.
>>> Janko: Agreed! And I'm hardly waiting for someone to come out with an
>>> idea, what to build for such comparison. I have one, but you will for
>>> sure declare me biased again .. :) A so called real-time web example: a
>>> multi-user chat. As that one on GMail, for instance. Another would be a
>>> basic CRUD example, which is so common pattern, filling that 90% of
>>> cases, to show, how the frameworks cover the people's most basic needs.
>>> Hannes proposal:
>>> ---------------
>>> Maybe a sample application which is combination of both your suggestions
>>> :-).
>>> A kind of more elaborate ToDo list (cf. the Seaside example in the
>>> tutorial)
>>> Features:
>>> - Multi-user
>>> - The users see a list of ToDo items and sees to whom they are assigned.
>>> - In a chat area they can discuss about the items and reassign them
>>>   accordingly.
>>> - Some views/reports (current tasks, my tasks, finished tasks, task in
>>>   a particular month).
>>> If you want more
>>> - A wiki in addition
>>> - A glossary (special terms in the reports are automatically
>>>   hyper-linked to a glossary entry)
>>> Best regards
>>> Hannes
>>> P.S. I am sure that other people have better ideas.
>>> I have no idea how much time this takes to implement in Aida/Web. In
>>> Seaside it is quite an effort.
>> --
>> Janko Mivšek
>> Aida/Web
>> Smalltalk Web Application Server
>> http://www.aidaweb.si

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