[aida] [Seaside] Comparison by example

H. Hirzel hannes.hirzel at gmail.com
Thu Jun 23 18:54:17 CEST 2011


Fine, I copy a more detailed proposal in below.
You may directly edit it under

The version below is saved as version 1.
In the hope I approach your wish of "not too much, not too few, just enough".

However everybody who is interested is invited to directly do the
changes there and then save a version.

I propose that you then copy the version to this email so that people
who do not feel comfortable using the etherpad can contribute with
traditional mailing list replies.


Copy of
Version 1

Smalltalk web frameworks comparison
example application
There are three Smalltalk webframeworks




One way to compare them is to create a table with features
On the mailing lists people brought up the shortcomings of this
approach and the suggestion was made to implement the same application
in all the three frameworks.
Point of departure
Applications in the Ducasse Seaside book
http://book.seaside.st/book/in-action/todo  ToDo List application
http://book.seaside.st/book/in-action/serving-files  Serving files (e.g. images)
http://book.seaside.st/book/web-20/rss  Really Simple Syndication
http://book.seaside.st/book/in-action/sudoku  A Web Sodoku Player
Application in the HPI Seaside book
ToDo list application with login; each user has his or her ToDo list
The Gemstone tutorial does not have a sample application. It explains
how parts are done.
Sample application is an address book
(Note: a screenshot of the main screen on the web page would be nice)
So for a comparison it seems like a natural extension to build on what
is available -- the ToDo list application. And the HPI book has the
most comprehensive one.
Iliad web frame work
No application (on the web site); not checked in the code
ToDo List application
1) Do for all frameworks what is described in the HPI book (several
users; each user has his private todo list)
2) Extend it that several users may have a common todo list where
everybody can add todo items and mark them as done (with a remark
field for notes and a field who created a todo item and who marked it
as done)
3) Extend it that todo items may be assigned to a user and offer views
so that people see the todo items assigned to them
4) Add a glossary module (e.g. list of abbreviations and expansions);
people may use special terms in the todo list items; they should
appear as hyperlinks or have a hover help explanation (the glossary
term when hovering over the term).
5) Add a chat module so that people can meet and  discuss about todo
items and move assignments and priorities around.
Seaside Books
Dynamic Web Development with Seaside
by S. Ducasse, L. Renggli, C. D. Shaffer, R. Zaccone with M. Davies 2009
An Introduction to Seaside
by M. Perscheid, M. Haupt, M. Beck, P. Osburg, J. Eastman, R.
Hirschfeld, D. Tibbe, S. Berger 2008
Gemstone Tutorial
Aida Web Documentation
Iliad Project Documentation

On 6/23/11, Janko Mivšek <janko.mivsek at eranova.si> wrote:
> Hannes,
> What I'd like to ask you is to continue detailing your proposal, so that
> we will have just exact enough blueprint for this example app. Not too
> much, not too few, just enough :)
> Best regards
> Janko
> S, Janko Mivšek piše:
>> Hi guys,
>> I'm opening a new thread with idea by Johan and Hannes to write an
>> example app on all three web frameworks. Here is a copy of that thread
>> and first Hannes proposal:
>> Johan: For comparing, it would be really good to have the same
>> application written in the three frameworks by experts and have the
>> experts compare them. Hey, if I find the time (oeps) I would even love
>> to help out on that one.
>> Janko: Agreed! And I'm hardly waiting for someone to come out with an
>> idea, what to build for such comparison. I have one, but you will for
>> sure declare me biased again .. :) A so called real-time web example: a
>> multi-user chat. As that one on GMail, for instance. Another would be a
>> basic CRUD example, which is so common pattern, filling that 90% of
>> cases, to show, how the frameworks cover the people's most basic needs.
>> Hannes proposal:
>> ---------------
>> Maybe a sample application which is combination of both your suggestions
>> :-).
>> A kind of more elaborate ToDo list (cf. the Seaside example in the
>> tutorial)
>> Features:
>> - Multi-user
>> - The users see a list of ToDo items and sees to whom they are assigned.
>> - In a chat area they can discuss about the items and reassign them
>>   accordingly.
>> - Some views/reports (current tasks, my tasks, finished tasks, task in
>>   a particular month).
>> If you want more
>> - A wiki in addition
>> - A glossary (special terms in the reports are automatically
>>   hyper-linked to a glossary entry)
>> Best regards
>> Hannes
>> P.S. I am sure that other people have better ideas.
>> I have no idea how much time this takes to implement in Aida/Web. In
>> Seaside it is quite an effort.
> --
> Janko Mivšek
> Aida/Web
> Smalltalk Web Application Server
> http://www.aidaweb.si

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