[aida] Question about Aida vs Seaside

Germán Arduino garduino at gmail.com
Wed Sep 10 23:29:40 CEST 2008

I really apologize, don't know why, but I missed completely this mail.

Sorry by the omission Rob and yes, the mail was very very interesting.

In all this time I advaced a bit with Aida/Scribo, as you comment,
with the big help of Janko and Nico.

Thanks and sorry again.

2008/5/10 Rob Rothwell <r.j.rothwell en gmail.com>:
> Sure...I think best "out loud" around other people, so I hope you don't mind
> going "back and forth!"
> I don't think I can call myself a compete Smalltalk "novice" anymore, though
> I still feel like it compared with everyone else out there.  My programming
> experience is purely procedural:  Assembly, VisualBasic, etc..., but I was
> always trying to do Smalltalk-ish stuff.  It has taken me a LONG time to be
> able to do "useful work."
> Also keep in mind that I COMPLETELY missed the web-programming movement
> while I was in the Army.  I have NO experience with HTML, CSS, Javascript,
> etc, etc, etc...
> With that in mind, I found Seaside challenging because it builds on your
> [pre-existing] web knowledge.
> Aida, in my mind, is much "simpler" in this regard, or at least more
> "abstract."  I could actually (for the most part) "figure it out" by
> browsing the classes and the WebDemoApp methods.
> The idea of "naming conventions" confused me at first about Aida--you MUST
> have a domain object (MyObject) that is the domain model for your
> application (MyObjectApp).  Starting and stopping your site is a bit rough,
> and styling your site can be confusing.  I can change the style now, but am
> no good at CSS, so I am limited in what I can change.
> For Squeak, Nicolas is doing some great Scriptaculous work
> (http://nico.bioskop.fr/).  I found all the Ajax integration in Aida much
> easier to understand than in Seaside, where I just didn't have a clue what
> was going on.  In fact, Ajax is buried at the bottom of the Aida framework,
> so it feels very much "built-in."
> I the big reason I am using Aida is because it was "simple enough" for me.
>  I always thought of myself as a "smart" programmer:  I have a long-ago
> degree in Physics, and have been "programming" since I was 11.  I do process
> improvement and Decision Support work at a hospital.  But Seaside still
> escapes me because I am NOT a programmer, meaning I need to program to "get
> things done," not to write a "great program," and so Aida was a great choice
> for me because I could almost just sit down and get started, and Janko and
> the Aida community are VERY willing to help when you have a question.  There
> are very few things I have wanted to do that they haven't been able to
> explain to me--usually within HOURS.
> So...depending on what you are writing (I am working on basic business
> data-collection applications), and depending on how you feel about the CSS
> style guidelines, you can very quickly and read ably get many components up
> and running, nicely pre-wired to your domain model object(s). I mention the
> style guidelines only because the easiest way for me to layout forms in Aida
> is using tables, which does not bother me for the applications I am writing,
> but is apparently a big faux pas in the CSS world!
> I would be happy to help any way I can; I have been given much by the Aida
> community and have been lax in my duties to provide more promised
> documentation on the Aida web site!  (There are so many interlocking pieces
> of a good demonstration showing off the many parts of Aida that I get lost
> in "Scope Creep.")  So...ask away, and I will answer as best I can!
> Hope this is somewhat useful,
> Rob
> P.S.  I should really figure out this IRC thing someday as well...
> On 5/10/08, Germán Arduino <garduino en gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Rob:
>> Sorry bothering you with this question, but on IRC Janko commented me that
>> I can ask you about your experience using Aida against Seaside.
>> I'm familiar with Seaside, developed several apps, but I'm interested in
>> give a try to Aida and if you can comment you own experience, surely will be
>> a lot useful to me.
>> Thanks in advance by your help.
>> Cheers.
>> --
>> Germán S. Arduino
>> http://www.arsol.biz
>> http://www.arsol.net

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