[aida] Aida Wish List

Rob Rothwell r.j.rothwell at gmail.com
Thu Nov 20 02:18:19 CET 2008


Janko,

Umm...definitely the Scaffolding...it's a MUCH better version of what I
showed I was working on last summer.  Not sure about SeaBreeze...I mean,
yes, that would work, and was what I was asking about last February or so,
but in the spirit of "getting something done" I guess I was just thinking of
Scaffolding with a little boost to allow relative placement of the
controls.  Maybe it does that, though, and I just couldn't tell from the
screencast...

Rob

On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 2:01 PM, Janko Mivšek <janko.mivsek at eranova.si>wrote:

> Hi Rob,
>
> I think you are looking for something like SeaBreeze then?
>
>        http://seabreeze.heeg.de/?screenshots
>
> The other thing which would be achieved even easier is a scaffolding
> support for Aida apps, to start with those mundane inital tasks fast, then
> polish your app to the final one.
>
> Janko
>
> Rob Rothwell wrote:
>
>> German,
>>
>> I have never developed anything in Morphic yet, so I value anyone's
>> opinion who has!  I wondered if Chris Muller's Maui would be a place to
>> start, though, just to get something going.
>>
>> I only thought of this because I am working with a product written in VW
>> that is nothing short of an object based persistence solution built
>> specifically to map ANY data source to the object model.
>>
>> Anyway, they have a nice, simple little GUI that let's you map your domain
>> attributes to a relative placement on the page, along with an interface for
>> setting the various properties of the widgets.
>>
>> I am NOT trying to add anything to Aida, but rather am toying around with
>> the idea of building something on top of Aida, and was just looking for some
>> intput!
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Rob
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 1:30 PM, Germán Arduino <garduino at gmail.com<mailto:
>> garduino at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>    Hi Rob:
>>
>>    Today we talked about this topic of Morphic on irc, and I tell my
>>    opinion that is really bad, complicated and time consuming.
>>
>>    I love Squeak, but....develop UI on Morphic is (to me at least)
>>    really a pain.
>>
>>    Trivial things as change attributes, align, etc need lot of time and
>>    really I would prefer to use such time on things more specfic of the
>>    domain and not with these things. And add the fact that the UI isn't
>>    that the most of users want to see on final users applications.
>>
>>    But, is what we've in these days on Squeak at dektop UI level.
>>
>>    Your idea is interesting to me.
>>
>>    Cheers.
>>    Germán.
>>
>>
>>    2008/11/18 Rob Rothwell <r.j.rothwell at gmail.com
>>    <mailto:r.j.rothwell at gmail.com>>
>>
>>        Hello all,
>>
>>        Just wanted to see what anyone thought of my latest idea, given
>>        that someone had already worked on a Morphic Interface to start
>>        and stop Aida.
>>
>>        How about a Morphic grid that allows you to relatively place
>>        your domain model attributes in them and set the type of
>>        WebElement you wanted to use to display the attribute, give it a
>>        label, etc...?
>>
>>        It would be quite useful for straightforward business apps, I
>>        think.
>>        Anyway, without starting a WebStyle war, it would be quite
>>        simple for these layouts to be "generated" since it would all be
>>        relative table placement, something Aida excels at.
>>
>>        At any rate, I was finally thinking about learning enough
>>        Morphic to take a stab at it in my spare time, and just wondered
>>        what anyone else thought.
>>
>>        Take care,
>>
>>        Rob
>>
>>        On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 8:08 AM, Germán Arduino
>>        <garduino at gmail.com <mailto:garduino at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>            Hi Janko, list:
>>
>>            Well, my first motivation, more than the details of the
>>            points, was to point the need of have a "Wish List"
>>            somewhere. :)
>>
>>            About the details, some comments between your lines:
>>
>>            2008/11/18 Janko Mivšek <janko.mivsek at eranova.si
>>            <mailto:janko.mivsek at eranova.si>>
>>
>>
>>
>>                This is good idea, let we open an Aida SPM and a Wish
>>                list page there.
>>                Also we need to make a nice inter-site registration
>>                process for a single
>>                logon as well.
>>
>>
>>            Fantastic!
>>
>>                 > * Swazoo/Scribo Morphic Console (Myself developing,
>>                by now the working
>>                 > version is
>>
>> http://scribo.aidaweb.si/repository/scribo-console-gsa.5.mcz)
>>
>>
>>                This is important as a small step towards more user
>>                friendliness of
>>                forthcoming Scribo, because usability is currently our
>>                main goal for
>>                next beta.
>>
>>
>>
>>            Well, I will continue developing as soon as I get a bit of
>>            free time. It's first on my open source to-do list priorities.
>>
>>
>>
>>                 > * Magritte integration
>>
>>                Not really integration but support in a separate
>>                package, which you
>>                start using when your problem became really so complex
>>                to justify
>>                introducing Magritte. By default we don't need it. We
>>                need to keep Aida
>>                and Scribo simple, because we have just too big
>>                advantage here.
>>
>>                In my opinion Pier fate is such just because they
>>                integrated Magritte
>>                for a just too simple task for it. End result is
>>                excessive complexity in
>>                front of the user, who in majority seeks just a simple
>>                CMS solution. We
>>                need to approach such users with simplicity, but later
>>                let them choose
>>                tools for more complex solutions as well. At that time
>>                Magritte came
>>                into picture, IMO.
>>
>>
>>
>>            Ok, I understand your point. I was talking exactly about
>>            such thing: Non trivial applications.
>>
>>
>>
>>                 > * Some tools as SeaBreeze or SmallFaces.
>>
>>                I see so called Scaffolding as something we can
>>                introduce in Aida quite
>>                easily for the start. Scaffoling means that with a tool
>>                you generate all
>>                 stubs for your code, which is usually most boring and
>>                mundane task at
>>                the start. Later you continue with normal development.
>>                See "Scaffolding
>>                for GemStone" screencast about a tool made by Gerhard
>>                Obermann:
>>
>>                       http://vimeo.com/2231019
>>
>>
>>
>>            Yes, I saw Scaffolding, look very interesting.
>>
>>
>>                Tools like SeaBreeze are also to be considered, but such
>>                tools need to
>>                be introduced carefully, we see just too many such
>>                visual tools which
>>                after a big investment in development time failed at the
>>                end.
>>
>>                For instance, I don't see how SeaBreeze can deal with
>>                 component based
>>                development, which is a cornerstone for both Aida and
>>                Seaside. If we'd
>>                therfore go that way, we need to answer this question
>>                first, in advance.
>>
>>
>>
>>            Understand. I was pointing more that the functionality of
>>            SeaBreeze, tools that help to reduce the development time. A
>>            visual composition of (boring) things as tables, input
>>            texts, etc are ever useful imho.
>>
>>
>>
>>                 > * Gemstone/Magma integration.
>>
>>                Aida is already ported to Gemstone while Scribo not yet.
>>                Magma is also
>>                welcome, but it would be just nice if Magam would be
>>                ported to some
>>                other dialect too. Otherwise it will have a hard time
>>                against up to 4GB
>>                free Gemstone.
>>
>>
>>
>>            Very very good point. I was trying to establish priorities
>>            to focus the ever limited
>>            free time to learn new things. Indeed with your comment, the
>>            first option is then Gemstone.
>>
>>            Cheers.
>>            Germán.
>>
>>
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>>
>>
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
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>
> --
> Janko Mivšek
> AIDA/Web
> Smalltalk Web Application Server
> http://www.aidaweb.si
>
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