[aida] Aida Wish List

Janko Mivšek janko.mivsek at eranova.si
Wed Nov 19 20:01:23 CET 2008


Hi Rob,

I think you are looking for something like SeaBreeze then?

	http://seabreeze.heeg.de/?screenshots

The other thing which would be achieved even easier is a scaffolding 
support for Aida apps, to start with those mundane inital tasks fast, 
then polish your app to the final one.

Janko

Rob Rothwell wrote:
> German,
> 
> I have never developed anything in Morphic yet, so I value anyone's 
> opinion who has!  I wondered if Chris Muller's Maui would be a place to 
> start, though, just to get something going.
> 
> I only thought of this because I am working with a product written in VW 
> that is nothing short of an object based persistence solution built 
> specifically to map ANY data source to the object model.
> 
> Anyway, they have a nice, simple little GUI that let's you map your 
> domain attributes to a relative placement on the page, along with an 
> interface for setting the various properties of the widgets.
> 
> I am NOT trying to add anything to Aida, but rather am toying around 
> with the idea of building something on top of Aida, and was just looking 
> for some intput!
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Rob
> 
> On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 1:30 PM, Germán Arduino <garduino na gmail.com 
> <mailto:garduino na gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
>     Hi Rob:
> 
>     Today we talked about this topic of Morphic on irc, and I tell my
>     opinion that is really bad, complicated and time consuming.
> 
>     I love Squeak, but....develop UI on Morphic is (to me at least)
>     really a pain.
> 
>     Trivial things as change attributes, align, etc need lot of time and
>     really I would prefer to use such time on things more specfic of the
>     domain and not with these things. And add the fact that the UI isn't
>     that the most of users want to see on final users applications.
> 
>     But, is what we've in these days on Squeak at dektop UI level.
> 
>     Your idea is interesting to me.
> 
>     Cheers.
>     Germán.
> 
> 
>     2008/11/18 Rob Rothwell <r.j.rothwell na gmail.com
>     <mailto:r.j.rothwell na gmail.com>>
> 
>         Hello all,
> 
>         Just wanted to see what anyone thought of my latest idea, given
>         that someone had already worked on a Morphic Interface to start
>         and stop Aida.
> 
>         How about a Morphic grid that allows you to relatively place
>         your domain model attributes in them and set the type of
>         WebElement you wanted to use to display the attribute, give it a
>         label, etc...?
> 
>         It would be quite useful for straightforward business apps, I
>         think.  
> 
>         Anyway, without starting a WebStyle war, it would be quite
>         simple for these layouts to be "generated" since it would all be
>         relative table placement, something Aida excels at.
> 
>         At any rate, I was finally thinking about learning enough
>         Morphic to take a stab at it in my spare time, and just wondered
>         what anyone else thought.
> 
>         Take care,
> 
>         Rob
> 
>         On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 8:08 AM, Germán Arduino
>         <garduino na gmail.com <mailto:garduino na gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
>             Hi Janko, list:
> 
>             Well, my first motivation, more than the details of the
>             points, was to point the need of have a "Wish List"
>             somewhere. :)
> 
>             About the details, some comments between your lines:
> 
>             2008/11/18 Janko Mivšek <janko.mivsek na eranova.si
>             <mailto:janko.mivsek na eranova.si>>
> 
> 
>                 This is good idea, let we open an Aida SPM and a Wish
>                 list page there.
>                 Also we need to make a nice inter-site registration
>                 process for a single
>                 logon as well.
> 
> 
>             Fantastic!
>              
> 
>                  > * Swazoo/Scribo Morphic Console (Myself developing,
>                 by now the working
>                  > version is
>                 http://scribo.aidaweb.si/repository/scribo-console-gsa.5.mcz)
> 
> 
>                 This is important as a small step towards more user
>                 friendliness of
>                 forthcoming Scribo, because usability is currently our
>                 main goal for
>                 next beta.
> 
> 
> 
>             Well, I will continue developing as soon as I get a bit of
>             free time. It's first on my open source to-do list priorities.
> 
>              
> 
> 
>                  > * Magritte integration
> 
>                 Not really integration but support in a separate
>                 package, which you
>                 start using when your problem became really so complex
>                 to justify
>                 introducing Magritte. By default we don't need it. We
>                 need to keep Aida
>                 and Scribo simple, because we have just too big
>                 advantage here.
> 
>                 In my opinion Pier fate is such just because they
>                 integrated Magritte
>                 for a just too simple task for it. End result is
>                 excessive complexity in
>                 front of the user, who in majority seeks just a simple
>                 CMS solution. We
>                 need to approach such users with simplicity, but later
>                 let them choose
>                 tools for more complex solutions as well. At that time
>                 Magritte came
>                 into picture, IMO.
> 
> 
> 
>             Ok, I understand your point. I was talking exactly about
>             such thing: Non trivial applications.
> 
>              
> 
> 
>                  > * Some tools as SeaBreeze or SmallFaces.
> 
>                 I see so called Scaffolding as something we can
>                 introduce in Aida quite
>                 easily for the start. Scaffoling means that with a tool
>                 you generate all
>                  stubs for your code, which is usually most boring and
>                 mundane task at
>                 the start. Later you continue with normal development.
>                 See "Scaffolding
>                 for GemStone" screencast about a tool made by Gerhard
>                 Obermann:
> 
>                        http://vimeo.com/2231019
> 
> 
> 
>             Yes, I saw Scaffolding, look very interesting.
>              
> 
> 
>                 Tools like SeaBreeze are also to be considered, but such
>                 tools need to
>                 be introduced carefully, we see just too many such
>                 visual tools which
>                 after a big investment in development time failed at the
>                 end.
> 
>                 For instance, I don't see how SeaBreeze can deal with
>                  component based
>                 development, which is a cornerstone for both Aida and
>                 Seaside. If we'd
>                 therfore go that way, we need to answer this question
>                 first, in advance.
> 
> 
> 
>             Understand. I was pointing more that the functionality of
>             SeaBreeze, tools that help to reduce the development time. A
>             visual composition of (boring) things as tables, input
>             texts, etc are ever useful imho.
> 
>              
> 
> 
>                  > * Gemstone/Magma integration.
> 
>                 Aida is already ported to Gemstone while Scribo not yet.
>                 Magma is also
>                 welcome, but it would be just nice if Magam would be
>                 ported to some
>                 other dialect too. Otherwise it will have a hard time
>                 against up to 4GB
>                 free Gemstone.
> 
> 
> 
>             Very very good point. I was trying to establish priorities
>             to focus the ever limited
>             free time to learn new things. Indeed with your comment, the
>             first option is then Gemstone.
> 
>             Cheers.
>             Germán.
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
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-- 
Janko Mivšek
AIDA/Web
Smalltalk Web Application Server
http://www.aidaweb.si


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