[aida] Aida Wish List

Rob Rothwell r.j.rothwell at gmail.com
Wed Nov 19 19:45:37 CET 2008


German,

I have never developed anything in Morphic yet, so I value anyone's opinion
who has!  I wondered if Chris Muller's Maui would be a place to start,
though, just to get something going.

I only thought of this because I am working with a product written in VW
that is nothing short of an object based persistence solution built
specifically to map ANY data source to the object model.

Anyway, they have a nice, simple little GUI that let's you map your domain
attributes to a relative placement on the page, along with an interface for
setting the various properties of the widgets.

I am NOT trying to add anything to Aida, but rather am toying around with
the idea of building something on top of Aida, and was just looking for some
intput!

Thanks,

Rob

On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 1:30 PM, Germán Arduino <garduino at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Rob:
>
> Today we talked about this topic of Morphic on irc, and I tell my opinion
> that is really bad, complicated and time consuming.
>
> I love Squeak, but....develop UI on Morphic is (to me at least) really a
> pain.
>
> Trivial things as change attributes, align, etc need lot of time and really
> I would prefer to use such time on things more specfic of the domain and not
> with these things. And add the fact that the UI isn't that the most of users
> want to see on final users applications.
>
> But, is what we've in these days on Squeak at dektop UI level.
>
> Your idea is interesting to me.
>
> Cheers.
> Germán.
>
>
> 2008/11/18 Rob Rothwell <r.j.rothwell at gmail.com>
>
> Hello all,
>> Just wanted to see what anyone thought of my latest idea, given that
>> someone had already worked on a Morphic Interface to start and stop Aida.
>>
>> How about a Morphic grid that allows you to relatively place your domain
>> model attributes in them and set the type of WebElement you wanted to use to
>> display the attribute, give it a label, etc...?
>>
>> It would be quite useful for straightforward business apps, I think.
>>
>> Anyway, without starting a WebStyle war, it would be quite simple for
>> these layouts to be "generated" since it would all be relative table
>> placement, something Aida excels at.
>>
>> At any rate, I was finally thinking about learning enough Morphic to take
>> a stab at it in my spare time, and just wondered what anyone else thought.
>>
>> Take care,
>>
>> Rob
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 8:08 AM, Germán Arduino <garduino at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Janko, list:
>>>
>>> Well, my first motivation, more than the details of the points, was to
>>> point the need of have a "Wish List" somewhere. :)
>>>
>>> About the details, some comments between your lines:
>>>
>>> 2008/11/18 Janko Mivšek <janko.mivsek at eranova.si>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> This is good idea, let we open an Aida SPM and a Wish list page there.
>>>> Also we need to make a nice inter-site registration process for a single
>>>> logon as well.
>>>
>>>
>>> Fantastic!
>>>
>>>
>>>> > * Swazoo/Scribo Morphic Console (Myself developing, by now the working
>>>> > version is
>>>> http://scribo.aidaweb.si/repository/scribo-console-gsa.5.mcz)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This is important as a small step towards more user friendliness of
>>>> forthcoming Scribo, because usability is currently our main goal for
>>>> next beta.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Well, I will continue developing as soon as I get a bit of free time.
>>> It's first on my open source to-do list priorities.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> > * Magritte integration
>>>>
>>>> Not really integration but support in a separate package, which you
>>>> start using when your problem became really so complex to justify
>>>> introducing Magritte. By default we don't need it. We need to keep Aida
>>>> and Scribo simple, because we have just too big advantage here.
>>>>
>>>> In my opinion Pier fate is such just because they integrated Magritte
>>>> for a just too simple task for it. End result is excessive complexity in
>>>> front of the user, who in majority seeks just a simple CMS solution. We
>>>> need to approach such users with simplicity, but later let them choose
>>>> tools for more complex solutions as well. At that time Magritte came
>>>> into picture, IMO.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Ok, I understand your point. I was talking exactly about such thing: Non
>>> trivial applications.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> > * Some tools as SeaBreeze or SmallFaces.
>>>>
>>>> I see so called Scaffolding as something we can introduce in Aida quite
>>>> easily for the start. Scaffoling means that with a tool you generate all
>>>>  stubs for your code, which is usually most boring and mundane task at
>>>> the start. Later you continue with normal development. See "Scaffolding
>>>> for GemStone" screencast about a tool made by Gerhard Obermann:
>>>>
>>>>        http://vimeo.com/2231019
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, I saw Scaffolding, look very interesting.
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Tools like SeaBreeze are also to be considered, but such tools need to
>>>> be introduced carefully, we see just too many such visual tools which
>>>> after a big investment in development time failed at the end.
>>>>
>>>> For instance, I don't see how SeaBreeze can deal with  component based
>>>> development, which is a cornerstone for both Aida and Seaside. If we'd
>>>> therfore go that way, we need to answer this question first, in advance.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Understand. I was pointing more that the functionality of SeaBreeze,
>>> tools that help to reduce the development time. A visual composition of
>>> (boring) things as tables, input texts, etc are ever useful imho.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> > * Gemstone/Magma integration.
>>>>
>>>> Aida is already ported to Gemstone while Scribo not yet. Magma is also
>>>> welcome, but it would be just nice if Magam would be ported to some
>>>> other dialect too. Otherwise it will have a hard time against up to 4GB
>>>> free Gemstone.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Very very good point. I was trying to establish priorities to focus the
>>> ever limited
>>> free time to learn new things. Indeed with your comment, the first option
>>> is then Gemstone.
>>>
>>> Cheers.
>>> Germán.
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>
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